Pastor Rick Warren of Saddleback Church in California is a frequent guest on the Piers Morgan show. While some conservative evangelicals may fear being cornered on a show like Piers Morgan Live, Pastor Warren seems to relish the opportunities, as the conversation often turns to Spiritual things. In their most recent conversation, the liberal Brit tries to corner Pastor Warren on gay marriage, only to hear Pastor Warren patiently refute his every argument.
Bravo, Pastor Warren! Continue to speak the truth in love and you’ll definitely reap the rewards.
MORGAN: You and I, we’ve debated this before about gay rights, gay marriage. Clearly, it’s a movement in America as it is around the world…
MORGAN: … towards to a much more tolerant attitude to this. Have you in the last two years since I last I think debated this particular point with you — have you moved at all now? Are you recognizing that there is this seemingly unstoppable movement?
WARREN: Well, I don’t get to change what God says is right and what God says is wrong. And I think God is real clear that all sex outside of marriage is wrong. But the issue here is the issue of respect. While I may disagree with you on your views on sexuality, it does not give me a right to demean you, to demoralize you, to defame you, to turn you into a demon.
See tolerance, Piers, it used to mean we treat each other with mutual respect even if we have major disagreements. Today, tolerance has been changed to mean, all ideas are equally valid. Well, that’s none sense. OK? All ideas are not equally valid.
I mean, you could say the moon is made of cheese or I could say the moon is made of beans and so many ask me it mean wrong.
MORGAN: … a great man — how can you espouse genuine equality…
MORGAN: … if you don’t allow gay people the same rights to get married…
MORGAN: … as straight people? That’s a question that many I think would love to hear the answer.
WARREN: I’d like to reposition it this way. I’m more against the redefinition of the term marriage than anything else. I don’t think other groups get an opportunity to redefine a term. For instance, if a Muslim says this is a term we use and also I’ll take that term and mean it for me. What? That’s not right.
And I think, historically around the world, the vast majority of people would say, “Marriage means one man and one woman in a commitment.” Don’t take a term and make it something different.
Well, we’ll talk about double speak where words mean the exact opposite of what they use to mean. I’m going — OK. In first place, it’s not against the law for you to love anybody, a man or a woman OK? It’s not criminal — at least shouldn’t be but when you start taking a term, then why are taking that term?
MORGAN: Do you think you’ll change? I mean, can you see — you’re a man on a — he has this incredible library, Rick Warren — literally, one of the great libraries I’ve ever seen in my life, kept beautifully. You have all these books by all these great scholars.
Many, many of them would have evolved their thought processes over things depending on how they see if the — can you see a time, when not just you but other Christian preachers…
… and indeed the Catholic church and others say, “You know, what actually real equality means everyone has the same right to get married — gay or right.”
WARREN: I cannot see that happening in my life. I fear the disapproval of God more than I fear your disapproval or the disapproval of society. And so, I can’t change what I think God has said. Now, I believe in the infallibility of Scripture. I do not believe in the infallibility of my interpretations. So, interpretations can be wrong — we know that that as true but I believe that what Scripture says is that sex is for a man and a woman in marriage.
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